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John Ringer and Meghna Chakrabarti
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Liz Shuler is the first woman ever elected president of the AFL-CIO.

She took over a time when the world of work has been turned upside down.

Union organizing is happening in some unexpected places, and sometimes in ways that disrupt the traditional union playbook.

"If you have established unions, it's great to have their support," Brett Daniels, an Amazon union organizer, said. "But if they're not the ones that are actually on the inside, maybe workers can't relate to that as much, because who knows the warehouse conditions better than Amazon workers themselves?"

Today, On Point: A conversation with AFL-CIO president Liz Shuler.

Listen to the podcast.